Got it into Canada, now what?

[suzukistefan]

Hello all! I have got myself into a real pickle, and need your advice.

I purchased a beautiful 1998 Piaggio Ape 50 scooter/trike.

It was imported by the orig owner into Canada from Italy in 2003, but was never officially imported as a motorcycle (came in a shipping container with the seller's moving possessions, and Customs Canada didn't bother to care about the "trike" he marked down as part of the containers contents)

I know that getting a foreign motorcycle newer than 15 years old registered is nearly impossible.
But is possible if you know the loopholes.
In fact, there is are dealers in Ontario that will import and register 2007 Piaggio Ape's. How is it done?

Any suggestions or advice?

I would love to register it for road use, and don't want to wait until its 15 years old to drive it legally on the roads. Would be such a shame.

I have heard of many importers disassembling and re-assembling bikes/cars to get them into Canada, but how do they get them registered?

Could it be registered as a custom/kit bike?

Could you swap VIN numbers with an older legally imported bike that has shared parts with the existing unit?

Thanks, look forward to your responses, as I am stumped!

Thanks
Stefan

[seans]

#1- see the post above yours
#2- take all paperwork you have and some photos to an ICBC office (not an autoplan office, unless your agent is a wizard) and say "here's what i got...what do I need to drive this"
love, sean s

[suzukistefan]

Thanks for the info Sean

I did read with much care, the post above (how to register a paperless scooter) which is a very good posting, with good responses...

However, in regards the post above, I DO know who the last owner was, and the VIN will turn up that the scooter is less than 15 years old and unable to be insured because of that.....

I live in Alberta (we dont have ICBC) we have privatized registration offices.

But you are right. As a last resort, I can just take pictures, and all the info and say: "look, help me out, how can I get her on the road"

I would like to be prepared though. In Alberta, they are all quite strict. I have had bad luck in the past.

Is there any type of "registration expert or lawyer" I can hire to help me out?

Any more thoughts?

Thanks
Stefan

[seans]

Alberta? check with the apocalypse guys, they may know something...when dealing with them, keep your back to the wall and have a clear escape route....
other than that, you might have to "sell" it to somebody in another province, get it registered there and "buy" it back ?
good luck, and let me know how it goes. I'm looking for an Ape as well (pre 82)

love, sean s
[e-mail]

[suzukistefan]

Thanks for the response Sean

You are right, the registration "nazis" at Alberta registrations are very strickt, and unwilling to "help a brother out" I have had the toughest times with them!

I might have to sell it to a friend in BC, and get him to register and insure it there, seems like ICBC is more organised than Alberta's registry offices.

Have you seen the 82 Ape for sale:
scoot.net/classifieds/forsale.html?id=11448

Looks like a mint condition ride!

Speaking of early Ape's:

Why don't I purchase an old junkyard scrap Ape (pre 91 or 15 years old min)
Then I could swap some parts across and also swap VIN #'s.
I could then register the 98 as a older Ape I bought from the Junkyard?

Or is that very illegal?

Stefan

[hobospeed]

Illegal? yes...worth doing? maybe.

Before you try to track down an old ape to take the VIN from just try going to register it. The best strategy is to play dumb, bring only a bill of sale from the "farmer" you bought it from who had it in his shed for 17 years or so. Chances are they won't be able to find out it's actual year because they don't have records on Ape VINs because they were never imported to Canada or at least not since the 60's or early 70's. If your "Colombo" act doesn't work at one office try a couple of other ones. Sooner or later you'll find someone who doesn't give a crap and would rather give you the papers and go for a coffee break than use their brain.

If that doesn't work, just go buy a stamp set at a tool shop and make up a new VIN on a piece of aluminium that will date back to an 80's ape and glue or rivet it over the existing one. It won't be easy to find someone who has an old junk'd pre 1995 ape that is willing to cut off the VIN and send it to you... unless you have to family/friends in Italy.


good luck!


Tim

suzukistefan said:

Thanks for the response Sean

You are right, the registration "nazis" at Alberta registrations are very strickt, and unwilling to "help a brother out" I have had the toughest times with them!

I might have to sell it to a friend in BC, and get him to register and insure it there, seems like ICBC is more organised than Alberta's registry offices.

Have you seen the 82 Ape for sale:
scoot.net/classifieds/forsale.html?id=11448

Looks like a mint condition ride!

Speaking of early Ape's:

Why don't I purchase an old junkyard scrap Ape (pre 91 or 15 years old min)
Then I could swap some parts across and also swap VIN #'s.
I could then register the 98 as a older Ape I bought from the Junkyard?

Or is that very illegal?

Stefan

[seans]

I saw that Ape on scoot.net
I'm looking for a panel van, or truck with the wider cab.
I wouldn't cut and paste the vin's, take the time and get it reg'd legally....
If you can build a car from scratch in your garage and get it reg'd, you will be able to get a vehicle that is produced in the hundreds of thousands, on the road.

love, sean s

[Erin]

Alberta sucks...for many many reasons but the privatised registries is one of them. You will get a different answer (and cost) from any one of them!

Here is how my 1981 smallie finally got a plate (I know it's older than 15 yrs but the same process is probably req.):

- Was brought into Ontario before 2002 and never put on the road, it just sat in a shop.
- was brought to calgary, still not on the road. I bought it, I know the seller and he knew the shop in ontatrio so we both had bills of sale.
-went to registry with papers (my vin number is visible/not painted over). Was told I had to pay $$$ and have a whole new vin number assigned/engraved ! Turned into a total bitch and left.
- found out: The VIN won't be in the system and was told that since 2002 motorcycles/scooters ARE entered into the system by canada customs (whereas before the it was done at the province level. Hence the ease of bringing over a whole shipping container then selling them off.) B/C the bike was brought in before this rule and it was never entered at the provincial level in ONT, we had to go back to square one.
- the guy I bought it from had to go back to canada customs to get The import document : H128989 "Vehicle Import Form"
- went back to registry and VIN not in system and they won't imput it EVEN with the customs form. :-X Went to different registry: VIN entered and paid for Alberta Vehicle Inspection Request form. :)
(meanwhile got it "fixed" to meet Alberta's standards, adding signal lights...ect.)
- took bike with Inspection request form to inspection. (PM me if you want the full story on that! or if you need a mechanic to bring your bike up to snuff to pass)
- barely passed went straight to registry and got plate!

Did I mention this was a year long ordeal?

Hope this helps and hope I get outta this province soon.... ;)

[suzukistefan]

Thanks for the replys guys
I apreciate the comments of Tim, Sean and Erin.
Basically, the tactic sounds like it consists of:

-playing ignorant (ignorance is bliss!)towards the registration agent "its just some old scooter I bought from some guy in Ontario"
-if one registration office does'nt bite, then go on to the next one, until I can find and hopefully sweet-talk a registration agent (who is hopefully a woman!) into letting me register this "harmless little scooter"
-try to convince the agent that the scoot simply needs an "out of province inspection" (since it was purchsed into ontario) never mind the fact that it was imported from Italy! There is a local bike shop that I can sweet talk into doing an out of province for me and let it pass with flying colors, which im sure it will anyways

I will make a list of all the registry offices around my town (there are atleast 5 offices within 30min driving distance) and visit every single one if I have to. If it doesnt work, then I will wait a week and try again!

You guys have given me hope!
The only subject I still want to reaserch is how to get a new VIN # and register it as a kitcar build project. I have heard of people using that to hide the import year of a vehicle..

God Bless
Stefan

[Erin]

Good Luck. Hope it works out...

and it may help if you are in a smaller town cus they have likely dealt with registering other vehicles besieds the SUV's, minivans, trucks and sport bikes that is more the norm here in Calgary.

I'm not sure about the woman thing...do you look like Brad Pitt?

Perhaps I should have had some clevage and I would have gotten my plate must faster!

[paget]

I'm just easy. Seems to work for me.

[wheels]

Hey, clearly I am just trying to reach over you for a refill from Seans pitcher.

[Kevin]

I'm pretty sure the folks at Top-Gear in Edmonton had a 50 Ape on the road at one time, I'm pretty sure they were using it as a parts/people hauler. I believe they sold it a year or so ago.

You might want to talk with them to see how they got theirs regg'ed