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Post by eternal on Mar 20, 2006 12:21:49 GMT -5
If you can get it through as parts it should be ok. No title means could be stolen and a real big hassle for you. I had one coming from New York to BC and had everything set up but ended up I couldn't get anyone to pick it up in the area he was in. I had to get a 3rd carrier to haul from the guy to the intermediate shipper who would haul to me. Was going to cost me an extra $400 USD so I scraped the plan.
I have a load of parts coming from New Zealand and one thing about overseas is dirt and grease. New Zealand/Australia for importing must be realatively clean and they can ship crates, but for exporting to, you can't use wood for packaging and it must be totally clean or it will have to be fumigated which is about a $300 bill and something like up to 3 weeks once it arrives.
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Post by eternal on Mar 20, 2006 12:26:02 GMT -5
Has anyone ever thought of registering it first then bringing it over. Do the paperless scooter deal and then have it shipped as a piece of personal property. I had a car that broke down in washington an I took the plates and cancelled the insurance and 3 months later took a trailer to pick it up(should have left it) but they just wanted to see my registration and there was not even the slightest problem. That was about 5-6 yrs ago but it was just a thought.
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Post by DD on Mar 20, 2006 12:35:26 GMT -5
It's called smuggling. If caught there are penalties. Future trips to the US may be accompanied by semi-professional colonoscopies if your name ends up on a list.
The theory is that you do a paperless registration in your home province. That involves swearing a false statutory declaration before a Notary (i.e., "I found the bike at a junk yard in Ladner and it has no papers") in order to register it, insure it and get plates. One then transports the plates and registration across the border and puts them on the "import". Then you put the import in the back of your pick up or trailer. When driving back across the border you do not declare it. If you tried to ride it back they would catch you with the license plate because agencies on both sides of the border scan and share every plate number crossing the border.
The swearing of the false statement to register is a Criminal Code offense.
The failure to declare at the border is its own offense.
The failure to do the US side clearance is it's own US offense.
The scooter would probably get confiscated and auctioned. They hold the auctions down in Richmond every so often. I've seen motorcycles, cars, jewellery, perfume etc... never a scooter. You would also have cross border legal problems.
A $500 barn find would then become a very costly proposition, jeopardize future cross border travel, etc. etc...
Not worth the risk.
Do it once. Do it right.
P.S. Wheels (February 21, 2006) is correct: it is VIN ( Vin Number is redundant, like SIN Number (Social Insurance Number Number), PIN Number (Personal Information Number Number), or NOS System (Nitrous Oxide System System))
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Post by black_art on Mar 20, 2006 13:07:35 GMT -5
...not even the slightest problem. That was about 5-6 yrs ago but it was just a thought. Hmmmm...that was pre 9-11. Anyone that's done anything like this recently knows that things have tightened up considerably...no surprise. I wouldn't even consider any monkey business...especially because the official route isn't all that bad. Remember that to get a proper completed import form, the folks at the border need to physically inspect the bike to check the vin or serial number. No import form, no ICBC...where they check the vin/serial physically again!
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Post by Kevin on Mar 20, 2006 18:56:08 GMT -5
I now think it's asking for alot of work and trouble if the seller does not have the proper documentation at the time of sale. I'm dropping this scoot and looking at other interests. Thanks for all your help.
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mlb
Junior Associate Member
Posts: 3
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Post by mlb on May 9, 2006 14:34:47 GMT -5
Is that Mexican, Argentinian or South Seas pesos (Australian dollars)? But seriously, it's in very good condition and we have no idea what a vespa is worth. MLB
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retroscoot
Junior Member
I import Vespa and Lambretta sccoters
Posts: 2
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Post by retroscoot on Oct 14, 2006 11:34:54 GMT -5
I have imported quite a few Vespa's into Canada from India and Indonesia. The process is fairly simple, but carries a fair amount of risk. If you know what is required and have all the paperwork ready you can reduce the risk considerably.
Here is what I have learnt: 1. make sure you have all the required documentation before the scooter arrives, otherewise you are going to pay bonded storage fees which add up quickly. 2. As soon as the scooter lands organize for a soil inspection. It takes up to 48 hours in Vancouver. 3. Make sure the vendor sends the documentation separately in a strong package. I have recieved an envelope that had torn and the registration papers fell out. Ever tried replacing papers for a 40 year old scooter from India? 4. As soon as the soil inspection is done do the customs clearance, they may want to do an additional inspection which takes an additional 5 days. 5. Everything has to be done as fast as possible because you only get 5 days of storage free.
If any one would like to know more let me know. Buying a scooter from overseas is risky business, you can get one fairly reasonably, but you have to know the vendor and you have to know the process. Any delays means you end up paying more.
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rocket
Presidents Club Member
move over the tide wants in.
Posts: 1,431
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Post by rocket on Oct 15, 2006 0:25:50 GMT -5
when my scooter came across the border last week it was still in the box marked , vespa gti and i looked brand new from the box, they guy said are you bringing anything into canada , i said yes my scooter, he said can you prove you own it, i said yes, some where in that big box is the icbc registration papers , god knows where, knowing that they were in the glove box, he asked if i had any paper work in the truck so i showed him the forward air bill that said 1 vespa from new york to seattle , with my home address on it, he said ok no problem and didnt even get off his seat. get the right guy and do non of the above, get the wrong guy do all of the above+ i hope you didnt have curry for dinner!
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magoo
Frequent User
Posts: 134
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Post by magoo on Sept 15, 2007 12:23:56 GMT -5
The Canuck guards might or might not check the VIN, according to their mood. They might interrogate you about why the price was so low (in my case USD 1500, which I didn't think was low) in the hope of finding a contradicition in your story. Some of them seem to be wannabe Clouseau's. Don't have a nap in the middle of the night at an Oregon rest stop, while waiting for US export control to open at 8:00 am. Don't rent a van from Enterprise Truck Rentals, as they seem to have a separate computer system in the US and when the State Police run the van's BC plate while you sleep, Enterprise US will tell the cops they have no such plate so the van must be stolen. It is very hard to continue one's sleep after having a gun pointed at your face and then handcuffed and cooped up in the back of a cruiser on hard plastic seats that previous prisoners have puked on. When they read you your rights and ask you if you understand, don't say "no, I'm just a foreigner here" even if you don't really understand, otherwise the delay will be even longer while they find you a lawyer.
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Post by DD on Apr 7, 2008 10:20:14 GMT -5
Here's a gas station that is 24 hours and will store a bike while you clear it at customs: Yorkies Gas Station open 24 hrs 1307 Boblett st Blaine WA 1 360 332 4341 If they are full they recommend you to:
Alley Auto 365A D Street Baine, WA Pick Up: Rich - 360 927 2210 Jeff: (360) 815 3928
Costs:
$5 per day 3 day minimum Indoor motorcycles $10.00 per day Shuttle to or from border $10.00 After hours call out fee $25.00
When going to pick up - call them as you get to the border line up.
Initial drop off fee is $25.00 after hours plus bike storgae fee ($5 a day X 3day minimum X number of bikes.)
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Post by ayclens on Jul 2, 2008 14:18:33 GMT -5
I'm purchasing a 1980 P200 in Florida that the seller does not have a title for. He filed for a title some time ago but it has not arrived yet but he thinks it should arrive any day.
My problem is that I have a shipper that can pick up from Florida and deliver to me in Calgary this weekend. MUST I HAVE THE TITLE to import? Is there any way they will let me import the scooter with a bill of sale only?
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simone
Frequent User
Posts: 692
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Post by simone on Jul 2, 2008 15:28:07 GMT -5
You will have an interesting time registering it with only the bill of sale. it could be done here in BC if you are willing to commit fraud and omit the part about it coming from the US but I don't know if the system in AB can be sidetracked as easily. You may also have a hard time getting it across the border with out papers as it may end up stuck at the brokers and cost $$$ to store it then either return it or get the papers.
There are loads of p200s in Canada so why would you ship one from Florida?
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Post by ayclens on Jul 2, 2008 19:05:23 GMT -5
You will have an interesting time registering it with only the bill of sale. it could be done here in BC if you are willing to commit fraud and omit the part about it coming from the US but I don't know if the system in AB can be sidetracked as easily. You may also have a hard time getting it across the border with out papers as it may end up stuck at the brokers and cost $$$ to store it then either return it or get the papers. There are loads of p200s in Canada so why would you ship one from Florida? I know that in Alberta that a title is NOT needed to REGISTER it. Only "proof of ownership" such as a bill of sale is needed: www.servicealberta.ca/577.cfmI also called a registry agent here in Calgary and confirmed that they do not need a title for anything. The agent said that the only time that a title is required is at the import/export phase. However, this thread has conflicting reports with some people claiming a title is needed to import and others claiming that they have successfully imported legitimately through Canada Customs with no title. So the question remains: Will Canada customs absolutely require that I have a title to import it? Any help? The shipper only contacted me today and wants to pick up tomorrow! Yikes!
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simone
Frequent User
Posts: 692
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Post by simone on Jul 2, 2008 19:16:57 GMT -5
The difference is in your driving over the border with the scooter in the back of the truck yourself vs. using a shipping company. They don't always ask for papers when it's just an in the back and so you don't volunteer that info. Then you get it in and figure out how to register it later.
When it is being shipped with a company it usually has to go through a broker who will go by the books and therefor require a title. If your shipper is just a guy in a truck and not a shipping company, maybe he can get it across but it is always a gamble.
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simone
Frequent User
Posts: 692
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Post by simone on Jul 2, 2008 19:19:50 GMT -5
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Post by ayclens on Jul 2, 2008 19:55:39 GMT -5
The difference is in your driving over the border with the scooter in the back of the truck yourself vs. using a shipping company. They don't always ask for papers when it's just an in the back and so you don't volunteer that info. Then you get it in and figure out how to register it later. When it is being shipped with a company it usually has to go through a broker who will go by the books and therefor require a title. If your shipper is just a guy in a truck and not a shipping company, maybe he can get it across but it is always a gamble. Thanks for the help The shipper I have lined up is just "some guy in a truck" and not a company. Still, I don't know if it is worth the risk of having it refused entry into Canada. EDIT: I've decided to just ignore the sunny weather, be patient, and wait for the title to arrive...
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Erin
Frequent User
Hangry
Posts: 84
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Post by Erin on Jul 9, 2008 12:25:54 GMT -5
oh Alberta... My smallie (80ish) was from italy and brought into T.O. BUT never registered and on the road in ON so when it can to the AB registry they said I had to back track to Canada Customs to get the VIN on the system...then back to the local registry (they are all different/privatised so shop around!) At the local registry you'll have to get an OPI inspection request form...they won't give that to you unless the VIN is "in the system" already (so they told me) hence going back to Canada Customs. Many places will try to tell you the "VIN" isn't long enough and want you to pay to have a new VIN blasted on your bike ("Vin Assignment")! Leave that registry imediately. Next, take your bike to get the OPI...this is tricky as again all inspectors are different and some have no clue about Vespas and are SUPER anal others not so much....if they fail the OPI...turn your Vespa into to lawn art . Or frantically get the work done and take it back: "Inspection Deadlines Vehicles that fail the initial inspection must be repaired within 10 days of the failure notice to avoid an additional full inspection fee assessment. Vehicles repaired and presented for re-inspection within 10 days will be subject to verification of required repairs only. Inspection Certificates are valid for 14 days and vehicles must be registered in Alberta before the expiry date. Should the vehicle owner fail to register the vehicle within 14 days a full OOP Vehicle Inspection will be required again." In Calgary Try Greg's Cycle or Revoluzione (used to have the Vespa dealership) In Edmonton call Top Gear to see if they are an approved OPI station If you pass the opi go back to the registry, get plate and cry a little... see here for AB. www.transportation.alberta.ca/2826.htmCall the Federal Gov and find out what kind of paper work may be required when it comes into Canada. When my bike was taken back to the federal office they needed bills of sale and to confirm the motorcyle was 15 years or more in age to avoid the RIV crap. And as I've said before on the Calgary forum...move to BC to avoid the AB B.S.
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Post by DD on Jul 9, 2008 15:53:16 GMT -5
You could always sell the AB bike to a friend on BC who titles it and decides to sell it back to you.
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Erin
Frequent User
Hangry
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Post by Erin on Jul 9, 2008 16:19:36 GMT -5
yes, DD is right. that is a good idea. I'm not sure what the inspection process is, if at all, in BC for a bike from out of country...or province for that matter (is there an OPI process in BC?)....But I assume no matter what province you are in you will need the Transport Canada Vehicle Import Form (Form 1) to take to your local registry.
When I was dealing with the registry in AB they said the same pain in arse OPI would been required in AB even if a had got it in BC or ONT... I would have just avoided the part about going back to customs to get the VIN on the system and my Form 1 approved cus it would have already been on the BC system...
The smallie had it's own issues cus in AB signals had to be added (no matter what year the bike was the inspector said they could make you add signals) BC has vintage, classic catagories, AB has "Antique" but the vehicle has to be 25yrs or more in age and only for display...so agian an OPI could require you to add signals.
Fortunately the 1980 P from Florida will have signals already...
and to answer the title question: to get the bike across the border th RIV site from Simone's link says:
"What to do at the border :
Produce your title documents, registration and sales receipts. ..."
So the title is needed at the federal level but in AB at the registry it is not...just the bill of sale and form 1, insureance, ect.
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skwirly
Frequent User
one stone's throw from a rock fight
Posts: 128
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Post by skwirly on Jul 9, 2008 18:45:21 GMT -5
there is an OPI process in BC for cars but I don't know about bikes. However, I happen to know that Will at Vespa Vancouver is a BC Vehicle Inspector for motorcycles. Careful though, he knows what he's looking at so don't try and pull a fast one and expect him to pass it.
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