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Post by Angelo on Sept 21, 2006 21:53:28 GMT -5
This year has been an incredible year for me. I have made memories to last a life time, and plans to add to them. I have met people with character, dedication, enthusiasm like I have never seen before. For this reason I take offence to the club mud slinging that has occured. It made me sick to my stomach. I have a few choice words for people like that, but I will save them for a more appropriate time.
This may or may not be the time to bring this subject up, but perhaps this Forum, that is funded by the VCoC and in turn it's members, should remain for Paying members. There is a reason you need a password to enter this site.
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Daisy
VCoC Members
>^..^<
Posts: 1,871
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Post by Daisy on Sept 21, 2006 22:18:50 GMT -5
Excuse Me! I only post under this alias. This is definitely getting ridiculous. Farewell! This definately was not directed at you and I am sorry if you thought it was. I will be more clear in my posts. I am just tired of people who dis the Club publically when they have not been involved themselves. We are all volunteers here trying our best to have things fair and nice for everyone until this crap happens. It wears thin quickly. Anyways, enough ranting. thanks D
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Daisy
VCoC Members
>^..^<
Posts: 1,871
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Post by Daisy on Sept 21, 2006 22:29:22 GMT -5
As a Calgary member I'm not privy to all that goes on in other scoot cities . However as an active member of the scooter scene, I know firstly how bad it looks to see public pissing matches and secondly how hard it is to deal with problem posters. So often it looks like a personal issue between the posters and the administration. I would like to take this opportunity to thank Roy and Delia for all they have done for VCOC in the past year. The nationwide encourage they have given, can only be understood by the people who needed it. If you disagree,please feel free to pop round and chat in person. 803 11ave s.e Calgary . Sunday afternoon is good for me Thanks Noel....I will have to remember to have sponge cake with me next time we see each other.
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Roy
Presidents Club Member
Posts: 1,400
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Post by Roy on Sept 21, 2006 22:35:17 GMT -5
This may or may not be the time to bring this subject up, but perhaps this Forum, that is funded by the VCoC and in turn it's members, should remain for Paying members. There is a reason you need a password to enter this site. Angelo, constructive suggestions are always welcome!!! I know the question of what will be accessible to the public and what would be accessible for paying members only has come up a few times in the past. I hate to accept that there are a few people that ruin the fun for a larger group of people. However the people that are usually the instigators of these dramas have been non-paying members. We wanted the forum to be open to people to get to know the VCoC and be able to interact with its members before they may decide to join the Club (or as in Sean's case remain supporting non-members for many years...Sean we love you and you know it ). I also know that some paying members choose not to go on the forum because of the drama that happens from time to time. It's very sad if that's the case. I am at the point now where I am convinced that we need to re-think this for sure. However, this is not my decision to make. We'll need to bring this up with the Committee and the members and see what the majority wants, which in itself is a challenge to find out. There is lots to do and frankly I am tired and running out of steam after this eventful year and need to find time to recharge the batteries. Some people tell me I am overreacting and others ask for a strong hand to clean things up. You can't make everybody happy, and my focus will be to listen more to those who have been suporting this Club and been paying members for a long period of time.
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Post by eternal on Sept 21, 2006 22:49:42 GMT -5
How about a new subheading on the board called"bitch and whine" and every hour it can self delete and people can feel they are being disruptive and obtrusive without bothering anyone.
To Okanagan area Whiners:
Come out to this meeting some time soon and I will piss on all ya bitches
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Post by Angelo on Sept 21, 2006 23:14:16 GMT -5
Jerry you rock! ;D
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Post by wheels on Sept 22, 2006 0:06:16 GMT -5
Roy,I think maybe (unless you were asked otherwise by okanagan members) you should just leave em to it on this branch board, and let the moderators of the branch section deal with this, as they might be more aware of what is really going on. I know I for the most part stopped reading the vcoo section because it got really silly, and that says alot, cause i like silly. But of course, if branch members asked you to do sumthin...different story. But that is just my opinion...I'd rather have all this drama than a dead board
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Post by nocattle on Sept 22, 2006 1:44:15 GMT -5
...I'd rather have all this drama than a dead board I've dated both types, and believe me, they both suck. When your computer is as old and tired as mine is, the five, ten, fifteen, sometimes twenty minutes it takes to log-on isn't always worth it. If the VCOC could somehow guarantee that everytime I log in there would be something interesting to read/comment-on, I'ld be all over that. It can't be that hard. Maxim magazine does it. Ok, scratch that suggestion before you start asking me to volunteer/contribute my wit, charm and good looks. Sometimes it's better to just be a passive consumer, rather then be an active participant. Trolls will appear from time to time. The only way to be rid of them is to restrict access, but even that's no guarantee. I'm sure there's some fat wallet trolls out there with nothing better to do then fund the club with money and criticism. Some criticism is valid, while other stems from boredom/small-penis. Sometimes it's difficult to discern which is which. Trolls are seeking an emotional reaction, so it's best not to feed the trolls. In my experience, that almost never happens. But trolls who prop themselves up with supporting opinions from multiple-personalities do get caught, as it's a tool I've seen used before elsewhere. (Reminds me of that Parksville MP caught sending letters to the ed under multiple assumed names all praising himself, when nobody else was?) I think it's best to ban such behaviour but at the very least it's great to expose it for readers to read. I don't know if there's somebody computer savy enough to allow the forum admin.s to link multiple persona's in the left column so it reads "pussygalore AKA troll, painintheass, drama, etc."
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Post by DD on Sept 22, 2006 9:05:55 GMT -5
Don't censor. It plays into the trolls (..."What's this, a police state?"...) rhetoric. Free speech rules, and is more interesting. The alternative is worse and time consuming. Wheels is right, this is an Okanogan problem, and an Okanogan Admin should be on it. Admins can/should delete multiple personae and expose trolls that use them.
Confront 'em, don't ban 'em.
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Post by scottyk on Sept 22, 2006 9:28:56 GMT -5
here here DD, the OK chapter has there own moderators. Definately not a issue for anyone else.
my .02
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Post by bluebeetle on Sept 22, 2006 10:11:38 GMT -5
As a new member (march or april, 2006) My vote is to keep the forums open to all. My reason for this is that I never would have become a member if I had not first come to know all of you through the forum. As a 'remote' scooter in a 'remote' location, i love the contact with a larger community, and feel the good of keeping it open outwieghs the bad.
-mike
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rouso
Frequent User
Posts: 831
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Post by rouso on Sept 22, 2006 10:36:26 GMT -5
here's an idea for all you poo-poo-pooing sissies.......instead of just BITCHING about how the club sucks and is a rip off (or something)....why not BE CONSTRUCTIVE and suggest how it could be better, or better yet, put your money where your mouth is and GET INVOLVED, thereby making it better
otherwise. *yawn.......boring.
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Daisy
VCoC Members
>^..^<
Posts: 1,871
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Post by Daisy on Sept 22, 2006 11:23:32 GMT -5
What Moderator? Is there now a volunteer that I have not heard about?
thanks Rouso for your comment...it is RIGHT ON!
D
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Post by phantombeluga on Sept 22, 2006 12:49:27 GMT -5
Hi Everyone! I really believe the reaction to certain comments made on the VCoO to be an overreaction. Trolls are a reality where forums are concerned but they can make for interesting discussions. Any discussion as regards clubs and disbanding on one forum are not going to change the minds of those who belong to the Vespa club. If you read something you do not like, reply to it, if comments are abusive move to block them, but keep the dialogue be it fun, critical, trollish going. As for my part, I think Roy and Delia are wonderful people and I have liked everyone, in conjunction with the VCoC that I have met although I must disagree with the esteemed Blue Beetle as regards their analysis of the Vespas's introduction being innately cultural. It's orgins were functional first and became something of a cultural icon to a selection of people after the fact. An example of a true synthesis between culture and functionality would be say, Hopi pottery! Any comments?
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Daisy
VCoC Members
>^..^<
Posts: 1,871
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Post by Daisy on Sept 22, 2006 13:28:21 GMT -5
Thanks for that Phantom. I think that eventually the Trolls wear you down, especially with PM's that are offensive to the people who volunteer hundreds of hours to make things good for the groups. When 'stuff' happens publically on the forum and it boils down to this, there is always more laundry behind the scenes....and of course the sh*t disturbers always fail to mention that. It is always these same people who have not paid dues, who dont contribute, dont volunteer, and spend time bitching and threatening to not "renew" - what a joke.
In any event, we have made good friends and have had a blast at all of the rallies we attended this year, and they have all been fabulous and special in their own different ways. We will continue to do so no matter what the trolls toss our way from time to time.
see you in Kelowna ;D
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Post by bluebeetle on Sept 22, 2006 13:59:39 GMT -5
I must disagree with the esteemed Blue Beetle as regards their analysis of the Vespas's introduction being innately cultural. The esteemed Blue Beetle... i like the sounds of that
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Post by bluebeetle on Sept 22, 2006 15:32:28 GMT -5
I will continue with my discourse on design and practicality... The italians just simply DO NOT make things only for utilitarian reasons. Going back far enough...The Coliseum, the Parthanon, The unbelievable cathedrals and sculptures... the ceiling of the Cistine Chapel, Ducati, Lamborghini, Ferrari. They are also known worldwide for other forms of industrial design, lighting design, architecture, and clothing. The culture is one that appreciates the aesthetics of everything, and have done so for millenia.
Yes their products work. Yes they work very well... but for Italians when you say Ducati, it is not just about getting around quickly. It is about a community of people that ride Ducatis to work, build them all by hand (from start to finish, one technician) and live near the factory. Some of them are 3 and 4th generation workers. It is a way of life. The chief designer of the Ducati is quoted as hearing one fire up and saying "Such sweet thunder". There is passion there that you would not find in any other country for a product that is 'useful'.
This is the Italian way. They care about the way things look. Yes, the Vespa and Lambretta were solutions to a practical problem...but so were Cushman scooters (and where are they now?). The Vespa caught on because it is, and always has been, a very very sexy solution to a practical problem. If that's not innately cultural design heritage, i don't know what is.
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Post by DD on Sept 22, 2006 15:45:22 GMT -5
If that's not innately cultural design heritage, i don't know what is.
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Roy
Presidents Club Member
Posts: 1,400
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Post by Roy on Sept 22, 2006 15:58:54 GMT -5
OK...officially there are Moderators assigned to this forum...that doesn't mean they are active and actually would know what to do. It is like having certain positions assigned to certain people in the Club. If stuff is not getting done I will continue to step in as president when I feel it is required and do it myself. Did anyone complain when Delia and I took on to do memberships and finances earlier this year?
Whether it is at the branch level or at the National Club level, I will not accept certain behaviour on this forum.
So unfortuantely you have to deal with me as the Admin (and Moderator) that will step in...and to be clear here this is the first time somebody got banned....this is a very exceptional situation and not the rule. I have not censored anything that was said either. Just made sure that a certain person does not have access with certain aliases that person used (after that person said he didn't want to be here anyways). If some of you want to make this a witch hunt, fine.
And since we need to make it all public...one of the VCoO Moderators has asked me to stop the nonsense that was going on with multiple personas and the 'screw' the Club stuff that this one person with different personas was posting.
Again to the people out there...I am not the evil enemy...I work my ass of for this club and I have not heard anyone complain when it comes to Delia or myself volunteering countless hours to this Club. If you don't like what we do ...step up as a candidate for a Club position or volunteer for the Administrator job on this forum (by the way there is only one adminsitrator). It sucks having to defend yourself when you are actually doing a job for the Club that other people are not doing for different reasons.
I will continue to make decisions, some of them might be mistakes in certain peoples eyes, but at least I have a position and I stand up for it.
If VCoC members continue to make people not want to volunteer some of their time for this Club I hope they realize they play into the hands of those who are suggesting to dissolve the Club.
Maybe something else to think about.
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Post by phantombeluga on Sept 22, 2006 16:13:48 GMT -5
Hey Bluebeetle. Every society even those in decline have a certain aesthetic perception that provides for a kind of cultural foundation. Let us not forget the achievements of ancient Egypt. and the great kingdoms of MesoAmerica. Your rationale is valid only as it pertains to the great architectural and artistic achievements you have cited. Style may insinuate itself into a culture or be inspired by a cultural component but that does not imply that every invention or design becomes culturally important or is designed to make a cultural impact except in a specialized way. A Harley rider may not share your perception of Italian motorcycle design and I know scooterists who could care less about a scooterist culture. My main point concerns what I think the Vespa was at the time of it's inception, cheap parts combined with basic functionality. Almost everyone agrees as to the beauty of the Sistine chapel. Vechicles are a matter of taste. Correct me if I'm wrong but was not the Parthenon of Greek orgin? Take care. ;D
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